Raid Gear and raiding

Alright so here's where I'm kinda gonna go and throw alot of stuff out there at once, so bear with me please.

One of my biggest fears once hitting 70 or 80 is not being allowed to join in raids because I'm not "raid geared" or "experienced". The second part of that is actually oxymoronic - you have to actually GO on raids, like Naxx, to get experience doing raids, like Naxx - But nobody wants you to go on a Naxx raid because you lack the experience doing that raid.

Just out of randomness so most of you won't doubt my playing abilities and to give myself some credibility, in Lineage 2 (most of you probably aren't familiar with the gameplay from some of the convo's I've had with people about the game) I played as many different classes. My Sheilin Knight class was a hybrid tank (similar to a blood DK in some respects) and I was our clan's main most of the time when I was online and we did various dungeons and raids. So that gives me experience in aggro, holding aggro, keeping aggro, yadda yadda yadda. I also had a lvl 75 Phantom Summoner (WOW's = to a warlock) which I could use one summon as a tank for raids, but mostly used her for DPS and debuffs on targets. Lastly, my first class I started was a Phantom Ranger (Marksman) which was, obviously, DPS and pulls.

Why did I just say all of that? Well mostly to deter any comments that I may potentially not be included in high lvl raids based on my "inexperience" with raiding, but I'm fully aware that raids in WOW are alot different than raids in other mmo's. I know you guys don't want to wipe after you spend so much time in an instance clearing mobs and one guy or two screws the pooch on the entire operation. It's frustrating, I know, but experienced and geared people are just as capable of screwing up as someone their first time in a raid because of overconfidence, whereas a newbie raider would be more inclinded to hold back (at least I would be).

All that is relevant to the convos I've had with people in the past about how some people aren't invited to go on raids because they "lack experience" or gear. I'm only here to state the obvious - if you aren't allowed to go raiding, you'll never get the experience. When I hit 70 or 80, I don't wanna feel like nobody wants me tagging along in a raid. I'm not as hardcore about the game as some people, but I'm still paying the monthly fee and enjoying the social aspect of the game as much as the next person. Me and Liri took our DK's to Strat the other night and in an hour and a half, we'd probably both died 10-15 times between the both of us, but we were both laughing and having fun anyway. I just don't want to feel like I'd be unwelcomed into high level raids when/if I get high enough to go. Nobody wants to feel that way.


I know I've typed up alot until now, but this is where the real help from you guys comes into play.....

I'm still new to WOW. In Lineage 2, high level armor and weapons had to either be crafted by dwarves, because only dwarves could create a crafter class, or you got it in a drop in a 1/10,000 chance from a boss or 1/120,000 chance from a regular mob. With WOW, you can actually get nice armor and weapons in drops from doing a couple of raids, and that's awesome! The only problem is, I don't really know how to get the weapons and armor I'll need to be good at raiding with you guys when I get to a higher level. Basically, this is the info I'd like from you guys:

1) With either Smokeypants (hunter) or Kaedance (DK), what armors/weapons should I be aspiring towards and how do I get it? How much time/effort/money/pvp/crafting/whatever is involved in getting it?

2) What alternatives are there to getting the armor and weapons that I need? Would it be as simple as going on a couple of raids to get a weapon/armor drop, or will I have to do arena fights for 10 hours for 2 weeks straight to get the honor to buy it?

3) How much different is pvp armor versus raiding armor and why is pvp armor in a raid instance shunned so much? What if I'm poor and can only afford the pvp armor I basically get for free, aside from the time it takes to get honor for it, so that I basically can't afford to buy raid gear?


I think that's all I can think of at the moment. Sorry for the extremely long post, but I wanted to get all my points across, cover all my bases, and try to hopefully illicit as much info from you guys as I possibly can so that I can be best/better informed about my future with leveling and raiding.

lvl up to 80 and I will take you to any raid you want besides, I am going to recruit another officer for the guild who will handle raidings and groups for instances. As for me , I think that any half tarded chicken crap should know that at least 50% of the peeps dnt know the raids (i.e. Naxx) and unless they do it they won't know it. So, don't worry about that and as soon as we get enough 80's we will have our own gearing runs ( just like last week where I ran HOL like 5-7 per day cuz tanks wanted their tanking trinket ) It shouldn't be hard for us to run any instace but right now the biggest Problem is lvling then getting gear then raiding ( or raiding and getting gear ) and eating cookies now go bake me some cookies and warm milk

Thanks for the support Frost . I know you've always been one to be as helpful as possible and not worry so much about gear and whatnot.

Any input from anybody about what gear I need to be striving for? I checked the WOWWiki for hunter armor sets but there are several to choose from and I don't really know which is best for raiding, best for pvp, or which can be used effectively for either.

So what this looks like to me, Smokey, is that you are saying you have experience playing a different mmo but don't really have an idea of what your DK or hunter needs and the only real experience of wow you have had is pvp. Of course this is problematic but I was in the same boat as you when I first got on the server. I was lucky though, I had some extremely patient and devoted people that mentored me into being a tank and not running things like Kara in pvp gear (hats off to Drox, Kel, Thinger, and Drisst; you guys rock and thanks to Frost for believing in me and giving me my first chance at raiding). I am in no way a pro or comparatively as good as the players that brought me along but I'll share with you what I've learned about getting yourself enough credibility and experience to be useful in a raid.
1) You have two chars you are playing right now PICK ONE. You will not have enough time to gear them up or learn to pve with them at the same time.
2) Decide what role you char is going to have in the raid. If you pick a hunter you have to be dps. Hone in on the right dps tree that is for pve. Since I know little about hunters I can't help you there. If you pick your DK you have the option of being a tank or dps. The armor and specs for these are very different. If you want to be a tank stack defense, stamina, armor, dodge and parry. If you want a dps stack AP, Hit, Expertise, and Crit.
3) When you hit 70 go to Northrend and run as many dungeons as you can. PVP and pve have very different rules and different spell rotations. For example, DPS get to dance on the knife of putting out enough DPS and not over aggroing the mob off of the tank. As a hunter you will need to learn how to trap mobs with accuracy , know when to use misdirect and control your pet. As a DK dps you will need to learn how to use the abilities that benefit your raid at the right times (like anti magic zone), learn where to attack from, and dance on the dps/ aggro knife. As a DK tank you are going to need to know how to multi mob tank, use your mitigation cool downs at the right time, lead the raid, mark, and know when to use your special raid abilities. Where do I learn how to do these things? Well how did you learn how you pvp? You went to BG after BG to hone your skills. Well to hone pve skills you are going to have to go to dungeon after dungeon. I suggest running pugs (LFG queue pick up groups) because you are separated from your guild and are thus you are not riding on coat tails and learning on your own. Pugs don't baby players; if you screw up enough the group is going to break up. Most of the time your guildies won't do that to you and you will get babied and told that everything is alright and that you are a good player when you aren't and you have alot of work to do. If you can run successful pugs then you will know what to do in pve situations. This will lend itself to your experience and credibility. If you have run many a dungeon you have a good idea of how to pve and thus people will be more willing to take you to raids. Not only that if you run pugs and do well you will begin to network with other guilds who might invite you to a raid given that they are short of people and that you impressed them in the pug. However raids are somewhat different from running dungeons but you will learn about the differences when you get to a raid.
4) Finally you will need to hit the proper stat caps to be considered useful in the raid. Depending on which char you choose to work with and what you are going to do with them you will need to research what you need. Again I have little background in hunters so I can't offer you a link as to where to look up loot tables for gear for your hunter. However, I know alot more about DKs!
If you want to tank with your DK go here http://www.tankspot.com/forums/f97/41986-cider-s-easy-540-defense-gear-guide.html this gear is easy to get alot of it is cheap on the AH the rest involves running maybe 2-3 dungeons a day (about 2-3 hours given that the group is doing well)
If you want to learn EVERYTHING about your DK and want tons more information on specc and dps style go here and search the forums http://deathknight.info/

If you only play for say 2-3 hours a day and manage your time well you will get geared to run heroics in about a week (which is not bad at all once you hit 80).

As a last note, I'd be happy to work with you and help you get geared when the time comes good luck and definitively let me know if you ever need help.

;O

Thanks for the info Id , it's definately a big help to me! Considering how much longer hunter has been a WOW class versus DK, I'm finding it difficult to actually find info for them on good raiding gear. WOWWiki has sets listed, but no comments that are indepth like the link you provided for DK raiding gear. If it keeps up like this, I guess it'll be a no brainer picking the DK as my main due to more info being available that's actually beneficial.